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Welcome back, Rebooters! Episode 3 of Season 5 is a fab one, wherever you are on your journey through business and creativity. We’re joined by the brilliant Estelle Hakner, who is a website copywriter for eco brands. She combines SEO, storytelling and ethical persuasion to create sustainable website copy that helps brands attract eco-conscious customers and she shows us exactly why finding your niche can create such an impact.

This is also the first (only so far!) episode in the life of Creative Reboot that we’ve recorded with a guest when we’re both in the same room, on the same continent – very exciting stuff!

Meet Estelle

Estelle’s area of joy (we love this description!) is writing website copy for environmentally conscious brands that are genuinely trying to do good for people and the planet. She mainly works with smaller businesses where she can work directly with the founder, but also with some bigger and more established brands. Making sure they’re not accidentally greenwashing is important, and not using ethically questionable tactics in their copy.

What we talk about

What an epic niche this is, and how she got there (hint, she started as a more generalist copywriter in content). Estelle’s love of journalism and particularly environmental journalism.

The tough decisions around choosing to do something that feels instinctively right and comfortable, but in the process having to at least partly leave behind the thing you’ve worked hard at for so long.

Introversion! (We LOVE fellow introverts on this podcast!) Specifically, how discovering you’re an introvert can really help you understand why certain things exhaust you or drain you disproportionately, and how you can then balance that out once you know.

Getting bored with work you can do well, but which doesn’t hold any interest for you (something we’ve probably all encountered over the years?).

Discovering that there are actual skills to learn and hone in writing, and figuring out what to learn in what order.

The moment when the niche clicks in your head and you can’t believe you haven’t realised it before.

It’s easier to be authentic when you’re doing something which comes naturally to you.

Niching in terms of industry, projects, and shared values – you can define yours any way you like. And if you do niche on projects or values, chances are you’ll get, like Estelle, to work with clients across a whole variety of industries and professions.

Starting small and making incremental improvements – we were discussing eco-friendliness, sustainability and ethics, but actually, that could apply to lots of things!

Ethical marketing tactics – this feels like a topic we could go further into in a future episode, but Estelle gives us some great insight into it here.

How finding your niche can be perceived as limiting, and how for Estelle it has opened up her business and given her freedom.

The importance of alignment – finding a niche that feels aligned with you and your values rather than looking at a list of niches in your industry and trying to pick one. Making your own is always going to be a better fit for you.

Glorious moments of visibility and community and finding your people 🙂

Figuring out your energy levels, peaks & troughs and making your business and week work around that – eg having all your calls on a Tuesday morning and spending the afternoon walking out in nature.

Overcomplicating things! Simplifying can be very freeing (apparently… we are yet to try this consistently ourselves!). And whether we feel we have to make things more complex than they actually are in order to feel like we can charge for them or they are worthwhile. (don’t ever say we don’t go deep in our interviews!)

Spilling over with enthusiasm for what you do – isn’t that the most wonderful thing?

Get more Estelle in your life

Find Estelle online at

She’s on Instagram @estellehaknercopywriting

And she has a fab copywriting audit service if you fancy a refresh with actionable steps for you to implement.

Links we loved

The Ethical Marketing Pledge